By Mike Schroeder
Sedona Az NEWS. Sedona was visited Wednesday morning at 10:30 AM by 2 F35B II Marine Variant jet fighters. They are designed to replace the Harrier as they are VTOL aircraft (Vertical Take Off and Landing). This was a two-ship flight; typically, you have the student in the lead plane and the instructor in the second plane. The F35 is a single-pilot aircraft like the famous A10 Warthog. The F35B can also land on very short strips, like an aircraft carrier.
The “lid” you see open behind the pilot is the air intake for the down fan. It has an American flag on it…very cool. That air is channeled DOWN at the back of the plane through doors that open. When the jet goes into regular flight mode the intake on the top is closed and the down exhaust is closed. All thrust is diverted to the rear as in the regular F35.
There was some chatter on Next Door that was incorrect. These aircraft did not do a “touch and go”, it was a practice low approach to about 50ft above the runway. Both planes made two passes.
The landing speed of an F35 is 202 knots (232 mph) and requires a minimum of a 7000 ft runway unless authorized by Command to use a shorter strip. An F35 will not land in Sedona.
However, the F35B, what you heard and saw Wednesday can land vertically, which is ZERO forward motion or anything between that and 202kts. So it could come in at 50kts and do a gentle touchdown. These aircraft were practicing slow flight over the runway. The same in take-off. Depending on how much downforce is directed by the pilot, and the takeoff weight (fuel, ordnance, etc.), a rolling takeoff with down thrust assist may be used to achieve a full gross takeoff in a very short distance.
The F35B has full capability to safely land and take off in Sedona, or any other airport, no matter the size (or an aircraft carrier).
Keep in mind that Military fighter jets are not high bypass turbofan engines, like commercial or private jets. Those are quiet in comparison as you found out Wednesday.
The increased noise is from the downforce creating lift allowing slow flight, and slow speed practice approach. Both aircraft made two slow approaches. the total time for two runs was about 12 minutes. So, considering we have 525,000 minutes in a year – taking 12 minutes to enjoy the show, our brave pilots and supporting the military in our own backyard is pretty darn cool. Hope they do it more often. The sound of freedom is always good to hear.
The feature photo was snapped at the airport yesterday, by me.
This is an advertisement
27 Comments
BIG Deal! They don’t need to be doing tactical flight training into, above or near Sedona! And the crew who do frequently LAND and stay in Sedona do not need to be misappropriating military aircraft and wasting tax payer money! If you like the noise and potential for a large scale crash disaster to happen then go live by a military base and keep the military out of Sedona unless they are visiting while on leave or are conducting humanitarian assistance. We don’t need nor want a military airbase here! It is disruptive to everything and most everyone who reside here!
You reside here in safety thanks to pilots like these. Thank these American heroes
You reside here in peace thanks to these pilots and other who bought your freedome with their serice
No I reside here because I’m an American and a Veteran who wants peace and quiet now not a bunch of military aircraft doing things they need not do! Surely you agree that veterans especially combat veterans like myself have a RIGHT to live away from bases and their noise after the service. You’re all about rights right????
Please don’t be a NIMBY… We are blessed to have a military that keeps us from being in the compromised position Ukraine is in. A simple Thank You to our pilots would be appropriate.
But terrorizing our community is “the sound of freedom.” ??
What’s so brave about flying a jet of any type over Sedona? Brave is flying into combat to support our ground forces not playing pretendsies over a retiree population that benefits from its quiet and natural beauty of its natural surroundings!
And this happens far far more than the alleged 12 mins noted in your overblown hyperbole about how great the military is for disrupting our lives here!
Those jets flew low and slow directly over civilian housing where they could have easily stalled and created an astronomical disaster of death and destruction had one stalled out and crashed as they frequently do in populated areas in and around MILITARY BASES!
Wow…Mike a great shot! And thanks for the comments. A lot noisier than my Mooney M20K Rocket!
Just wait until one or more of them crash into a housing area!
Hey Jim it’s spelled Freedom not Freedumb or Freedome as you said. I also defended your right to your opinion no matter how ignorant it may be!
Gosh, move somewhere else if you are bothered by jets on occasion. Seriously.
JB, I agree with you. Yes, it’s cool technology and, yes, I appreciate the necessity and work performed by the military. But this use of military resources at low altitude over the populated area of Sedona was unprofessional, unnecessary, disruptive and abusive to the community. The flyover was not only one day, either. Earlier in the week these aircraft were flying extremely low over the forest trails immediately adjacent to Uptown. The noise was at a dB level to cause damage to hearing. Conducting training in an unprofessional manner that is disrespectful to the citizens you’re supposed to be protecting is not military heroism. In fact, this behavior is detrimental to sustaining the mission and core values of the U.S. military. Lots of military professionals in my family and several of them agree that this type of flyover was out of bounds.
Jim
I reside here in safety when 1, 2 and 3 ton military aircraft are NOT flying over my house “low and slow”!
Carl,
you stated what I was unable to do as eloquently as you did.
When I was in you were not permitted to use a military vehicle to get a haircut, run home to your on base housing or even to go eat. It is called misappropriation just as flying into Sedona to have brunch or whatever is! Those who never served think it is patriotic to misappropriate military aircraft or to endanger a civilian population by flying low and slow over populated areas.
Most of what we see flying into Sedona are SPEC Op aircraft (out of San Diego) and or support elements and crews en route to Utah for HALO/HAHO/LALO jumps and live fire exercises. They have the range to fly from San Diego to Yuma, Ft Bliss, Holloman AFB, White Sands, Groom Lake and a multitude of other bases on their way to Utah where they can practice whatever they wish and get refueled without having to pay (because the fuel has already been paid for by us taxpayers) through the nose like they do here in Sedona.
Anyone who knows anything about the F-35 on down to their Harrier predecessors knows that they have a great propensity to crash while flying vertically, low and slow!
Since it was my article, I thought I would let this nonsense play out a bit. Normally I would not waste my time replying to people who don’t have the fortitude (there’s another word for that also) to use their real name. The last time I used “JB” was ordering it with soda, JB & Soda is a fine drink.
So we have “Carl K”. – whoever that is, and “JB”, both which seem to be ashamed of themselves to post comments using their real names. Are you men, boys, women, kids or just keyboard cruisers that want to feel good.
Since you have filled the space with errors, misconceptions and blatantly misleading facts, it is hard not to say something to the uneducated who may read this stuff.
JB – No, it is not “tactical flight training”. You have been watching too many Chinese commercials on “tactical” flashlights” and “tactical” back backs”.
Military tactical operations between two aircraft are done in MOAs (Military Operations Areas), one of which is located east of Flagstaff. You can fly through it when it is “hot” although not advisable. ATC will let you know when it is. We also have tactical ops in restricted areas like the huge one above Creech AFB in Indian Springs, NV. Nobody goes in there but military.
Tactical areas are block limited, and unless they are dropping ordinance like at the Goldwater range. There is a “hard deck” which is set during any training. Watch Top Gun if you want more detail.
Practicing a slow approach is not a tactical maneuver. It is an aborted landang, without the “touch and go” part. And the comment about Harriers crashing during vertical takeoff has what to do with an F35 practicing slow flight. You realize that the “slow flight” is at about 100 kts, right? The same speed I land at, but half the speed of a standard F35. You have more of a chance of a Cessna 172 falling on your house than an F35B.
Regarding “wasting taxpayer money”, with what this government spends money on do you really want to go there? Not a wise statement JB. Training young pilots who may be flying you around in the left seat of a 737 in the future is all part of the ascension through the ranks and the protection of our country.
I am not aware of any pilots using jets to get a hair cut. This was probably a training exercise with a student in the lead since F35s are single pilot ships. And F35s can support ground forces, but that is really the job of the A10 Warthog. F35 drops ordinance, fires missiles and is primarily air to air combat. It is multifaceted and requires a heck of a lot of training.
Yes, they are loud. We have an airport which is part of the federal transportation system that the military can use at it wishes. Sorry you had a 12 minute disturbance – I hope they return often. We had one that came though a couple days ago. not sure if he mad a slow pass, I just saw him leaving.
No civilian population was “endangered”, and in the pattern they were will above the pattern altitude that everything else is that flies into Sedona. Trying to frighten people with comments like “low and slow” that are blatantly wrong is unconscionable. Their vertical down thrust is only deployed on approach (and there aren’t any people there) and the nozzles go to normal when exiting the runway.
Most of the military we see are Ospreys, Blackhawks and gunships. All doing training. They stop in Sedona, and are welcome. Sometime they get some lunch. Just another airport, but prettier.
And “Carl K”, it was not a flyover. It was not an airshow. If you are going to complain, at least get your termanology right, or go to an airshow and learn what a flyover is. It was training, and you know something, no different than an Embry Riddle student dong a missed approach in their Single Engine aircraft, just louder and way cooler.
The military should ALWAYS be welcome in this town, no matter how they arrive. I am sorry JB that you were disturbed, we have an airport here. There are a lot of very peaceful Arizona cities that do not have an airport. YOU chose Sedona.
“training young pilots” – by flying low over Sedona? Maybe that was not a wise line?
Thank you, Michael. Well stated . . .
Michael
YOU are incorrect! Any military aircraft can be used to support ground troops both directly and indirectly including F-35’s! I know what weapons platforms can do what trust me because it was my job to coordinate their use on the battlefield.
There are Congressional budgets and limits as to what the military can or cannot do and how they do it. For example in the 90’s the military had us running around with empty weapons saying bang bang when we trained instead of utilizing blanks and MILES gear for realistic simulation and or live fire as we did prior to and after that period. Why because there was NO funding allocated for such training during that time despite our having bunkers filled to the brim with both blanks and live ammo.
Yes the wreckless hovering over West Sedonas occupied neighborhoods was only 12-15 mins this time but it is being done with more and more frequency and more and more types of COMBAT aircraft. I was fine with the Osprey, C-130’s and even the C-141 landings here in support of the Navajo nation crisis.
Sure as you state, Sedona has an airport but again I ask why was it that the tourist helicopters were run out of there? And do you truly believe the US Military and its personnel can do whatever they want whenever and wherever? Gee if it were only that simplex we would have won Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and wouldn’t still be in Syria.
While Sedona may not be able to stop military aircraft from landing here they sure as hell can put stipulations on it. And btw the City government already let the cat out of the bag about how much money they are making from refueling said aircraft and I guarantee you that Congress will be very interested in knowing why exactly our military is paying for fuel when they could be refueling at any number of actual military bases around the region!
And BTW since these aircraft ARE required to file flight path requests and keep them updated the City should be giving residents advance notice of the flight at least an hour in advance whenever possible.
And this was NOT an Airshow! Airshows are highly highly regulated, planned way way in advance and flying above housing and people is FORBIDDEN due to the numerous crashes that have occurred at them so you excuses hold NO water sorry!
MS
I never said the F-35 was utilized in direct ground support operations. I stated that flying in support of ground troops was an act of heroism without stating in what type of aircraft.
Are you familiar with Lt Cmdr Richard Marcinko? Commander and founder of SEAL Team 6? Well he did whatever he wanted with whatever military equipment, personnel, aircraft etc. He went to prison for it despite getting nods and winks from various superiors. He recently passed but the point is that even the military does things they shouldn’t!
Lastly if you think any aircraft being directed over populated areas as low as those F-35’s did the other day as they flew from the 89A area to the Carroll Canyon area while at 100-150’ in elevation and flying SLOWLY with downward thrust as anyone who resides in the area and went out to see what was going on will tell you if they are being honest. I base elevation observed by the elevations I have jumped from both from towers and aircraft just like a sniper does with distance comparisons. You say that my stating that they were flying low and slow is unconscionable? Really? That is exactly what they were doing my friend and to say otherwise is unconscionable.
As I stated Congress will be very interested in what is going on.
Using Sedona to practice carrier type landings is tactical flight training!
I was doing reconnaissance missions in Bosnia in 95-96 when the US Navy thought it would be good training practice to drop a 500 pounder 50’ away from our base Camp Colt! Fortunately that day as the Navy was having fun doing what they Should Not have been doing i.e. nearly decimating the 1st Armored Division 3/5 CAV !
S#it happens but it doesn’t have too out of ignorance!!!!
Very cool! I am not sure how I missed it. I was home and didn’t hear a thing.
Gail I realize you were being snarky but when one of those military aircraft crashes into your home you will definitely hear it at least for a moment!
JB I was not being snarky nor was I replying directly to you. I didn’t hear them and I would have loved to have seen them. It is a simple as that.
Too many references here to the “Sedona” airport. It has nothing to do with the City of Sedona – it is owned by Yavapai County! Sorry I missed the event – I would have watched it! And thanks Michael for some EXCELLENT photography!!!
So the airport has already been sold to Yavapai or is it in the works?
You can go see air shows and military aircraft to your heart’s content at military bases and air shows they host. Sedona is not a military base (yet) nor should it become one even though that is where it is headed.
I welcome military and veterans to come visit here anytime but not with their taxpayer funded military aircraft!
For those of you who love seeing our military in action over Sedona I hope the military brings Armored Divisions through here next! Love to see your comments then!
Until we know who “JB” is, it is not worth responding.