By M. Lloyd
(July 24, 2014)
I am writing this as I feel that all the Verde Village residents should be aware of the inexcusable and reprehensible actions by a couple of directors/members of the Verde Village Property Owners’ Association with regard to homeowners installing solar panels.
We have just had solar panels installed on our roof and all the County and building permits were paid for by the solar company and the plans were approved by the County Building Inspector.
We received a letter from the Verde Property Owners’ Association Architectural Control Committee on June 5th asking for a $75 fee to obtain an approval permit. We called twice on June 6th and on June 9th to no avail. I subsequently left a message stating that we would be out of town for a few days and requesting someone to call us on June 20th to discuss the letter and fee as we had questions. We never received a call.
We wanted to question the $75 approval permit fee as under Arizona Senate Bill 1254 33-1816 – “…an association shall not prohibit the installation or use of a solar energy device as defined in Section 44-1761”. Therefore, how can the Association charge a fee for an approval permit since they do not have the legal right to disapprove the installation of solar panels?
We then received a letter dated June 23rd stating we have not complied with their request and not responded to them and that we now have to pay a minimum fee of $150 and then they indicated “note in 15 days the fee will be $225”. In their letter it states: “I would like to bring to your attention to the fact that the longer you take to comply, the higher the fee will be. The fee increases in increments determined by how long it takes you to comply”. It is incredulous that they can act this way after a homeowner has repeatedly tried to contact them (4 times in fact). [Editor’s Note: The contact information on the Property Owners’ Association website was incorrect.] The Property Owners’ Association is a non-profit organization, but yet they are profiting on permit fees on which they should not be charging for in the first place. In fact, we have spoken to several people who are on the Board of other homeowners associations and they do not charge fees for permits and do not understand how this Association can behave in this manner and requesting fees and high ones at that! The VVPOA Architectural Control Committee are imposing fees to install solar panels, regardless of Arizona law, and as they are not mentioned in the bylaws/CC&Rs, one can assume that there was no vote on this and therefore legally they are not permitted to charge these fees. How many other fees are the VVPOA erroneously charging residents for?
After receiving their June 23 letter, I called the Architectural Control Committee and left a message stating that we had received their letter and we would not be paying a fee especially as we did contact them in a prompt manner and they are erroneously claiming that we have not responded and now charging an additional $75 and that they are in violation of Arizona law.
A member/director then called me immediately and I reiterated the above comments and we had a heated exchange with him ending with: “you will be paying the fees as otherwise we will put a lien on your home”. The first threat! Does this imply that the Association is quite willing to use homeowners’ monies to take them to Court for fees they should not be charging in the first place and who refuse to divulge what the fee is actually for?
As is normal business practice, a reminder letter is issued, and additionally if a business is demanding money, they would send a letter via certified mail to ensure that it has been received. It is evident that the Association does not have any ethics or business acumen because they immediately sent out a threatening letter demanding more fees instead of sending out a follow-up letter. How do they know that the homeowner (a) could be on vacation, (b) be ill or in hospital, or (c) not have received the letter. It is obvious from these directors/members’ bullying tactics that it is all about money and misplaced power.
I then emailed the Association noting the Arizona Senate Bill and pointing out my issues and asked what is the $75 actually going to as if by law we do not require permission from them for a solar panel, then how they can demand a fee for an approval permit? I have asked them several times to explain to me what the fee is for and where it is going and, to this day, I have not had any response from the Association on this particular issue.
I then received a call from a lady from the Association stating that she heard all my messages – which implies she heard the message left asking to call us on June 20th – and “now I have to listen to her”. I told her that I have sent the Association an email and all the details are in there and I don’t want to discuss anything further on the phone until my questions are answered in that email. She told me in a threatening tone “if I don’t get the approval permit that they will come and remove the panels”. This conversation also ended up as a heated argument and it is diabolical that this is the second threat I received from a director/member. From her comment, it is apparent that this person does not realize that if she did in fact remove the panels, this would constitute trespassing and theft.
This director/member told me that when I moved into the Verde Villages that I was aware of all their rules and regulations and have to abide by them and “do what they say”. There are several new State laws implemented in the past 16 years and it is obvious that the Association have not done their due diligence and updated theirs. In fact, we have never received a copy of their CC&Rs and have sent the Association four emails asking them to send them to me and, at present, I have still not received them. This is not in compliance with their Item 2(A) under “Article 2 – Purpose & Objectives” in their bylaws, and they have certainly not acted in accordance with Item 1: “the purpose of the VVPOA is to promote harmony among all residents”. (I would not be aware of this if it was not for a fellow resident emailing me the bylaws (dated 2009) and their CC&Rs for the unit I reside (dated 1971). It is evident that the people running this VVPOA are not interested in keeping current with the times and Arizona law and making any pertinent changes when needed. There is no mention of solar panels in any documents.
I feel that these directors/members do not have a lot of knowledge about how to run a business, due to their improper conduct, let alone how to run a community, and it is inexcusable for them to use intimidation and bullying tactics.
It is unbelievable that a property owners’ association could be so heavy-handed, threatening, and feel that they have this power to control homeowners. They are a non-profit organization and they have to disclose where these fees and funds are going to and they refuse to answer my requests.
During all of this, our solar company has been fantastic and, as we are leasing the panels, my concern was for them as the Association’s actions could affect the solar company. The solar company did not want me to continue to be subjected to the Association’s offensive behavior and said they would be happy to pay the $75 even though we were reluctant for them to do so, or for us to do so, as we felt that the Association has no justification for asking for this fee.
I then wrote to the Association and told them that they would be receiving a check from the solar company for $75. I received a response demanding that I come in on July 3rd with the check and they would give me the approval permit. They were informed 3 times that the check is coming directly from the solar company and continued to ignore this and demand it on July 3. (We received the building permit today – but 3 weeks later, still no CC&Rs or an explanation of where this very high fee is being allocated or acknowledgement of the Senate Bill).
I have had no other contact with other directors/members of this Association so I am not in a position to comment on the way they conduct themselves, but the ones I have been in contact with are doing the Association no favors at all and these representatives are acting unprofessionally and behaving in an abusive manner. I will not tolerate and be subjected to this kind of treatment and the other directors and members of the Property Owners Associations’ Board should not condone it either and should promptly remove them from their positions.
I understand why Property Owners Associations are formed and even though I do not agree with some of their rules and regulations, some of them are needed to not only keep up the appearance of common areas (though I do not believe this Association does that), ensure that homeowners take pride in their home and its appearance so as to maintain or improve property levels. However, due to the interaction I have had with the Association, it is obvious that a couple of the directors/members of the Verde Village Property Owners’ Association do not want to work with the residents and help us try and improve not only our community but our environment, but instead they want to be bullies and make it us against them. They seem to be more interested in their egos and money. It is time for us to stop them dictating to us and pushing us around.
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(August 1, 2014) – The following documents have been submitted by M. Lloyd and are referenced in the comments following this article:
- Letter from ACC to Verde Village Property Owners’ Association dated September 4, 2013
- Screenshot from the ACC website indicating VVPOA is not in good standing as of July 31, 2014
- VVPOA Board Meeting Minutes, September 2, 2013
21 Comments
Dear M. Lloyd
As past president of the VVPOA I am saddened to hear of the experience you have had. During my tenure we did not charge for solar panels as we felt it was a plus for the community.
I am sorry that you paid the $75 for no reason except to pacify these two individuals.
I do hope others will read your letter and refuse to be bullied. As you stated the association was created to promote harmony and for many years did so. Yes, there were those that disagreed with some decisions but for the most part it was a good association and it had a good relationship with the community.
Dear Margaret
Thank you for the email and for the info. I totally agree with your comments on the $75 and I am hoping that the Board members or other offices will take action to show that they do not condone this behavior and even refund back the solar company with the erroneous fee. The VVPOA do not have a current web site so I am unable to find contact details for any other directors/officers to write to them as they might not even be aware that these 2 people are acting this way and possibly doing things that are in violation of their own CC&Rs and bylaws. If anyone can give me contact information for them, I will write to them directly and send them the above.
M. Lloyd
You might try looking in the Cottonwood phone book under the name given on the letter you received. Oh, I just looked at the letter again – no one signed it.
President: June Hayes and the last I heard Bill Hayes was the head of the architectural committee.
I’ve heard there have been changes of persons holding other positions so I do not know who they may now be.
Margaret
Unfortunately, my interactions were with the President and Mr. Hayes and therefore am not sure if any other officers in the VVPOA are even aware of their actions and how they are treating people and not abiding by their own bylaws and CC&Rs and would like to advise them of what we experienced, and who knows how many other people.
I am under the assumption that as there is no mention of solar panels or fees for installing them in the CC&Rs that a vote did not take place which is a requirement, and therefore they are not permitted to legally charge them if that is in fact the case. I have still not received a response from them with regard to Arizona Law pertaining to solar panels, or for the CC&Rs (which again is non-compliant with the VVPOA rules) and their explanation of what the $75 is actually for. There is only one word that comes to mind when they charge $75 after every 14 days if they do not even hear from you! It is a disgrace and my points on this are in the above. They need to be held accountable and I can only hope that the rest of the officers/directors of the VVPOA will take this seriously and show that they do not condone this behavior by taking some action.
Hello and welcome to the Verde Villages! I’m sorry your landing here was so bumpy. You could have been welcomed with a garland of flowers, or a welcome wagon, but instead you were immediately treated as a “debtor in arrears” by some do-gooder volunteers in an organization you’d never even heard of. If somebody had treated me that way I’d be hopping mad too.
I’ve been a resident here since 2006 and also former volunteer at the VVPOA. While there I worked hard to be friendly and helpful to others, both residents and newcomers alike, and I’ve made many new friends this way. In my opinion, even if the fee is valid, collecting it should have been handled better with courtesy and civility. Even an unpaid volunteer, elected to office, has minimal standards of behavior to live up to when serving people in this, or any other community. Some do well at it and unfortunately others do not. Looks like you’re dealing with a bad batch this time.
In my opinion, exposing the policies of the VVPOA in the news is the only way some of these newly elected people will take notice and pay attention to what they are doing. They seem to have no clue as to how their actions and methods are being received by people who are in reality their CUSTOMERS!
Will you be there next year to vote them back in? Yes I know, bad joke! Such is the nature of Democracy, though, and any alternative is worse!
We just received the CC&Rs (1971) and the 2009 Bylaws, coincidentally after this letter was published, along with an unsigned letter from the Architectural Committee saying that they do not profit on fees – yet they increase them by $75 every 14 days regardless if one has responded and they do not respond – is that not profiting on fees? Their letter stated that what they do with their money is determined by their Board of Directors and that “the Assoc. pays utilities, repair to their properties, insurance, license fees and whatever bills they incur in keeping their Assoc. running” – non-profit orgs. have to reveal their income and expenditure and we have the right to know these figures. What actually does the Association do as there are many areas that look like a dump ground but yet they are going after people who want to improve their property, the community and the environment. The letter also stated that in a Sept 2013 Board of Directors meeting, they unanimously passed a motion to establish a fee of $75 for issuing a permit for installation of solar panels and they sent me a copy of the minutes. The minutes state “begin charging a small fee for solar..” but no mention of that small fee being $75! Does anyone constitute $75 a small fee? Neither the bylaws or the CC&Rs indicate their schedule of fees so one does not actually know the amounts. Additionally, their letter also states that they “decided that no plans would be needed to be submitted for solar installations…”, but yet in their letter to me dated June 23rd (as on this article), they requested the plans! They say that they act lawfully at all times within their regulations but Article Two (2) states that the “VVPOA shall … make available copies of the current revisions of the bylaws and restrictive covenants” and I have never received any of them so they are not in compliance with their own regulations. They never sent the CC&Rs and the Bylaws with their demand letter either. This Association is a volunteer one and it is not mandatory to join so many residents are irate that they are paying fees when they are not even a member! We feel the same way as many people about being a member and who would want to when their own officers have no respect for residents and think they can bully and intimidate people and get away with it. Their behavior and threats to collect fees are unacceptable and inexcusable and none of us should tolerate it and the other VVPOA directors should not condone their behavior and make changes in-house.
I feel that the residents in the Verde Villages and the members who pay them an annual membership fee should know that the VVPOA are currently not in good standing with the Arizona Corporation Commission as they have not filed their annual report and associated fees that were required by May 28, 2014. In fact, this is the third year that the VVPOA have not complied with the ACC’s regulations as they had to send them a Notice of Pending Administrative Dissolution in September 2012 and September 2013 for failing to file their annual reports and associated fees. The ACC gave them 60 days to do so which they finally did. (Funny how the VVPOA use such bullying tactics to collect permit fees plus an additional $75 just after 14 days – and wonder how they would feel if once they filed their annual report, the ACC doubled their filing fees for every 14 days they never received it!) VVPOA Architectural Control Committee wrote to me stating that they “act lawfully at all times..”. One can draw their own conclusions with how the VVPOA act with the facts: (a) they are not in compliance with a couple of their own bylaws with regard to providing amended ones – (I have asked several residents and they either have never received Bylaws and CC&Rs and ly did not receive amended ones after the Board Meeting in September 2013); (b) there is no mention of a $75 permit fee in the minutes they provided that they state were unanimously agreed at the Board Meeting only “a small fee” was indicated; (c) they decided at that Board Meeting that one does not need to submit plans to get a permit but yet in their first letter to me they required the solar panel plans and also this was not in the minutes; and (d) they are not filing their annual reports and associated fees by the date required with the ACC. I feel it is only right that the VVPOA refund the solar company the $75 permit fees and maybe other residents will request the same after knowing the above and have issues with their conduct and lack of compliance. Here is the link to the ACC Page: .
I am writing this to try and set the record straight regarding the bashing that is taking place against the Verde Village Property Owners Assoc. I called the corporation commission myself just today and the VVPOA is not delinquent in standing and is very much in good standing. .. Not sure who Ms Lloyd is talking to but I would hope she would get her facts straight before attacking this current association. I am trying to see both sides of an issue but all I see is a very upset person who did not want to follow the rules that others have followed. If you are so unhappy why don’t you come to some general meetings and see what is happening in YOUR community. Get involved instead of lashing out at someone who is giving more time to this association that any of her predecessors.
I have previously written in support of M. Lloyd and her ongoing efforts to bring to light the tactics the VVPOA uses to collect fees. Now I feel I must write again to rebuff some of Krys Vogler’s latest comments.
Mrs. Vogler says, and I quote… “Get involved instead of lashing out at someone who is giving more time to this association that any of her predecessors.”
I’m unclear who it is Mrs. Vogler is referring to. In my opinion neither she nor the president qualifies, most of the board members have resigned, so have a couple of executive members, and volunteers are now almost non-existent. So who could it be who is “giving so much time” to the association?
Then, I honestly can’t think of one good thing that the current VVPOA Executive has actually done for the benefit Verde Village community since taking office. And driving around the community reporting on and fining people who are fixing up their properties does not qualify.
I can, however, think of quite a few things that have been messed up and the “flak” that is being being directed at the VVPOA lately is, in my opinion, well earned.
I have created public awareness of the VVPOAs tactics, behavior, and the VVPOA’s documents. Ms. Vogler, as I can see from the AZ Corporation Commission, you are the Treasurer of the VVPOA. I just spoke with an ACC representative this morning and she confirmed that the VVPOA are not in good standing for failure to file their annual report by the due date May 28, 2014. One can go to the AZ Corporation Commission web site, click on current status and see that the ACC is reporting that the VVPOA is not in good standing and the reason why. If anyone wants to check for themselves, you can also call them at 800-345-5819 and give file number 0088130-4. The link to the file is in my previous post. In fact, if one scrolls down, in 2012 and 2013 Notices of Pending Administrative Dissolution was sent to the VVPOA for failing to file annual fees by the due date in those 2 years . These facts are very much straight !! Additionally, the VVPOA’s own documents support everything I have said. There is not one VVPOA document that states solar panel installations or the actual fee amount of $75 – in fact there are no actual fee amounts anywhere, not in the Building Regulations, the CC&Rs or the Bylaws – only the word “fees”. The only document that mentions solar is the Minutes from 9/2/13. The Building Regulations is dated 1993 so they have not even been updated, as is required, to reflect the Board Meeting on 9/2/13 so not one resident in the Verde Villages would be aware of “a small fee” for solar panel installation until they receive the demand letter from the VVPOA. (I did not receive any documents until 5 weeks after the first letter!) VVPOA have to advise residents of any changes as per Article 2 in the Bylaws. Plus the Arizona Revised Statute mentioned does apply to the VVPOA: Under ARS 33-1802 Definitions: 1. “Association” means a nonprofit corporation or unincorporated association of owners that is created pursuant to a declaration to own and operate portions of a planned community…
2. “Community documents” means the declaration, bylaws, articles of incorporation, if any, and rules, if any.
ARS 33-1816. Solar energy devices reasonable restrictions fees and costs. A. Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, an association shall not prohibit the installation or use of a solar energy device as defined in section 44-1761, which states
1. “Collector” means a component of a solar energy device that is used to absorb solar radiation, convert it to heat or electricity and transfer the heat to a heat transfer fluid or to storage. The VVPOA have implied that solar panels are not a solar device!
Therefore, if the VVPOA are not permitted to prohibit the installation of solar panels according to Arizona law then you should not be charging a fee for an approval permit. This is not about me following VVPOA rules, this is about the fact that there is no mention of solar panels or a fee of $75 (or any fee amount relating to other regulations) in any VVPOA document, except the Minutes which does not constitute being a bylaw or a Building Regulation, and the threats that the VVPOA have no qualms handing out. There is also no mention in any VVPOA document that the VVPOA can charge $75 for every 14 days if there is no response to their letter. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but what I have stated are not opinions they are facts, and correct ones at that.
To Ms. Lloyd and all others who are spreading false information about our standing with the Corporation Commision.
I talked to the Corporation Commision yesterday and when I questioned VVPOA’s status with them I was advised that we are not even “delinquent” as of this date.
We will complete the form she is sending me, I will complete it and send them the $10 annual fee. It is time to stop spreading this information making people believe that we are about to lose our incorporation.
Some additional information I found very interest in looking through ACC records: VVPOA also filed “late” applications in 2006, 2007, 2009, and 2010.
I believe our record show Mr. Otterson and Ms. Paddock were the presidents during some of these years.
Ms. Vogler, you need to make a public apology to M. Lloyd as not only are all her facts correct but she has not lashed out once to anyone in the VVPOA – there has been no personal attacks in any of her letters or follow-up posts here or anywhere. In fact it is you and June Hayes that is lashing out and viciously attacking her. I just clicked on the links to the documents at the top of this article which shows that the VVPOA are not in good standing and also called the Corporation Commission and they confirmed that you are indeed not. It is diabolical that you, especially as the VVPOA’s Treasurer, are blatantly lying. Many residents probably didn’t give it a second thought or even know that the documents did not mention anything about solar panel installations so kudos to Ms. Lloyd for bringing this to the residents’ attention. In fact, Ms. Lloyd did not break any rules as the fees were paid (via the solar company), and in any case there are no rules to break anyway with regard to solar panel installations due to the fact that there is no mention in the Bylaws, Building Regulations, CC&Rs (at this present time) that mentions solar panels and an approval permit fee, as Ms. Lloyd rightly states. If anyone is breaking any rules, one can say it is in fact the VVPOA themselves per their own documents. I have also checked the Arizona Revised Statutes and in fact the Statute M. Lloyd mentions does apply to the VVPOA. Ms. Lloyd is also correct in her comments that there are no actual amounts stated in any document only the word “fees” so as far as the residents know, the VVPOA are just throwing out any amount, and there is also no mention of charging late fees of $75 per every 14 days for not responding to VVPOA letters when the VVPOA cannot even prove it was even received as they are not sent certified – so I concur with M. Lloyd on this procedure and the fact that they do not send out reminder letters as well! You and Mrs. Hayes are defaming M. Lloyd’s character and it is inexcusable and appalling that you are doing so as all she has done is report true facts and the VVPOA’s own documents, Arizona legislation, and the ACC support every one of them. I have not read one comment anywhere that is in favor of the VVPOA and that is regardless of M. Lloyd’s reporting, as it is apparent that the VVPOA have not been in the residents’ good books for the longest time. The VVPOA do not want to work with the residents whatsoever, and are charging fees in amounts that are not documented anywhere for solar panel installations that are also not documented anywhere. In fact, one already has to pay for County building permits and there is absolutely no reason why the VVPOA should also charge for permits whatsoever. Congratulations Mr. Vogler and Mrs. Hayes, you have both done an excellent job on destroying not only yours but the VVPOA’s credibility. I respect and admire M. Lloyd for challenging the VVPOA and for taking the time in researching everything she has reported and for advising residents on the VVPOA’s appalling tactics and threats – which I understand many other people have been subjected to. Thank you, M. Lloyd, thank you.
Mrs. Hayes – not I or Ms. Lloyd are making false statements at all and I resent that you have the audacity to state that. I hope, M. Lloyd, that you do not mind me speaking on your behalf here. You, Mrs. Hayes, and Ms. Vogler are the ones making the misrepresentations. Mrs. Hayes – the VVPOA was also late in 2012 and 2013 in addition to this year. You can only blame yourselves for this position with the ACC – not Ms. Lloyd, myself, anyone else, or the ACC. On the AZ Corporation Commission web site under your file, the current status says “not in good standing” due to the fact that your annual report is past due! These are facts, Mrs. Hayes, true facts, from the Arizona Corporation Commission themselves! When I called the ACC, I asked what is the status for the VVPOA and they advised me that the VVPOA is not in good standing because you have not filed the Annual Report by the due date. The page that shows your current status on their web site indicates “not in good standing” as the snapshot indicates further up on this page. This cannot be made any clearer Mrs. Hayes. Are you now going to accuse the ACC for making false accusations because they have on their web site “Delinquent Annual Report” for 2012 and 2013 and that your current status is “not in good standing”? Not once has it been stated or implied that the VVPOA are losing their corporation status at this time, only that the VVPOA was past due for the third year in a row. It amazes me that as President of this VVPOA and the Treasurer states that M. Lloyd and now myself are making false claims when it is clear for everyone to see that you are in fact past due in filing! You owe us both a public apology.
I am also refuting Mrs. Hayes’ comments as I just called the Arizona Corporation Commission and asked them what the current status is for the VVPOA. The representative told me that the VVPOA is not in good standing as the VVPOA are 2.5 months delinquent as they have not filed their Annual Report by May 28, 2014. They gave me the phone number for the Annual Reports Department (602-542-3285) and the representative confirmed they have been delinquent for 2.5 months and there is no penalty for non-profit organizations when they are, and if a report is not filed within 6 months, then the corporation is dissolved and there is a fee of $25 for reinstatement. Does this mean, Mrs. Hayes, the ACC are also lying to us? M. Lloyd and S. Brown did not once imply that the VVPOA are losing its corporation only that you are past due in your filing. Mrs. Hayes, it is quite incredible, especially as you are the President, that you are falsely accusing M. Lloyd, S. Brown and others of making false remarks when it is in fact you and your Treasurer that is doing that and you are implying that the ACC is also making false representations. I agree with S. Brown, you and Ms. Vogler need to make a public apology and even resign from your positions. This is no way for a President and Treasurer to act!
Dear S Brown, M Lloyd
In response to the back and forth on the ACC filings, S Brown has stated he believes this is the third year for which the filing is late. May I point out that Mrs. Hayes has been President for slightly over one year. Please address your comments to the correct people responsible for the apparent inconsistencies in years past.
M. Lais, I see that you are the Secretary of the VVPOA, so it is funny how the only people that are making false statements anywhere are in fact the officers of the VVPOA! if you read the comments it is stating that the VVPOA has been late with the filings for 3 years in a row, and as it is June Hayes and Krys Vogler that are making the misrepresentations, that is why they are being addressed. If you read M. Lloyd’s comments, she always stated VVPOA and not June Hayes. If you read my comment in context when addressing June Hayes, I said that “you can blame yourselves…” which is in the plural and not singular – meaning the VVPOA can blame themselves for being in the position for VVPOA being delinquent. The bottom line is that the President and Treasurer are blatantly lying about the facts of the situation with the ACC – as well as many other things. June Hayes and now Krys Vogler are falsely accusing people of make false representations when in fact M. Lloyd, myself and others are all making true representations. Taking words from that famous movie line the VVPOA “can’t handle the truth” so the VVPOA instead are making vicious personal attacks on anyone who is challenging them, especially M. Lloyd. Every single fact has been supported by documents whether it is the VVPOA’s own, the Arizona legislature, or the ACC. You should read all the comments elsewhere Ms. Lais, Hayes and Vogler and see what people do in fact feel about the VVPOA! June Hayes has no place being a President with her unjustifiable attacks and lies, and in fact many people feel there is no place for the VVPOA.
Using Krys Vogler’s words, “I am wondering who in fact” June Hayes “is speaking to but I would hope she would get her facts straight before attacking” Ms. Lloyd and others. She is certainly not talking to the same Arizona Corporation Commission that we all spoke with today. It amazes me that the President and Treasurer of the VVPOA feel the need to lie about this and that they have no reservations in not only lying but also in falsely accusing people who are correct with the facts they are reporting. The ACC also told me that the VVPOA are not in good standing and have been delinquent for 2.5 months in filing their annual report. Mrs. Hayes, as you are saying that M. Lloyd and others are making false statements about your status with the ACC, then you are in fact implying that the representatives we all spoke to at the ACC today are also lying and that the information they have on their web site is also incorrect? Which number did you call Mrs. Hayes as it certainly is not the one we all called? The only representations that are not true are the ones made by the VVPOA and it is appalling that the VVPOA have resorted to personally attacking people who are being honest and stating the truth. I see, M. Lais, that June Hayes is listed as President on the 2013 Annual Report so therefore under June Hayes’ tenure as President, the VVPOA have filed their annual report late twice, 2013 and 2014. Someone does not respond in 14 days to the VVPOA, you charge them an additional $75 – hmm and that is not profiting on fees – yet this charge is not even listed in any VVPOA documents – hmm again! Additionally, it is inexcusable that June Hayes, in her letter elsewhere, personally attacked M. Lloyd, quite viciously I must say, and defamed Ms. Lloyd’s character by implying that everything M. Lloyd stated that transpired was a complete fabrication but funny how everything Ms. Lloyd stated is indeed correct. I for one believe that the conversations Ms. Lloyd mentioned did take place, just like all the conversations we all had with the ACC that contradicted Mrs. Hayes’ remark. The only party that is fabricating anything is the VVPOA! On this alone, June Hayes should immediately issue a public apology to M. Lloyd and, as other people have mentioned, immediately hand in her resignation. The VVPOA does not work in harmony at all with residents (contradicting their Article 2(1) in their Bylaws), and in fact many people are at a loss as to what the VVPOA actually does as according to a lot of people they practically do nothing except alienate residents by charging fees in amounts that are not even listed in any of their documents, as M. Lloyd states, and using threatening tactics to collect fees, amounts of which are also not stated in any VVPOA docs. Another comment I have to reject is the one made by Krys Vogler: she does not know M. Lloyd so to imply she does not follow rules is another attack (the VVPOA received the $75) and other people who also paid obviously did not expend the time to research about solar panels and whether VVPOA have the right to charge for their installation, or were also subjected to VVPOA threats of liens, as other people have confirmed. However, Ms. Vogler, there are in fact no rules for M. Lloyd or anyone to follow at the present time as there is no mention of solar panels in any VVPOA documentation or an approval permit fee for same, and no actual amount is stated for permits either, so one can come to the conclusion that the VVPOA have no right in charging a fee to obtain an approval permit for solar panels and should consider refunding everyone that has been charged for their installation. Plus Arizona law says that you cannot prohibit solar panels so therefore you have to allow them so there should be no fee required anyway. It is not a stretch to say that it is the VVPOA that are not only not following their own rules but Arizona ones as well.
Using Krys Vogler’s own words: “Not sure who” June Hayes “is talking to but I would hope she would get her facts straight before attacking” Ms. Lloyd and others. I am not sure which Corporation Commission June Hayes was talking to but it certainly was not the one we all spoke to today. I also called the AZ Corporation Commission and they verified to me that the VVPOA are not in good standing for failing to file the annual report and are 2.5 months delinquent. Therefore, as Mrs. Hayes accuses Ms. Lloyd and others of providing false information, then Mrs. Hayes is implying that all the AZ Corporate Commission representatives we all spoke to today were also lying and that the information on the ACC’s web site are also false. Which number did Mrs. Hayes call as it certainly was not the ones we all called today? It is appalling that the President (June Hayes) and the Treasurer (K. Vogler) are personally attacking honest people presenting truthful facts and they should issue a public apology and then hand in their resignation as it is the VVPOA who are making misrepresentations. To M. Lais, June Hayes is listed as President on the 2013 Annual Report so therefore under June Hayes’ tenure, the VVPOA have filed their annual report late twice, 2013 and 2014. Ms. Vogler obviously does not even know M. Lloyd so to make a defamatory remark that she does not follow rules is unacceptable as in fact what rules are there that M. Lloyd did in fact not follow (VVPOA received the $75)? As M. Lloyd correctly states, there is no mention of solar panels in the VVPOA’s Building Regulations, Bylaws and CC&Rs, and installation fees, amount of which is also not stated anywhere (for solar or anything else), so in fact Ms. Vogler as there is no mention of residents requiring a permit for solar panel installations in the VVPOA’s own documents, then the VVPOA should not be charging for one. (Minutes are not considered a bylaw or a building regulation). It is the VVPOA that are the ones that are not following their own rules (and for that matter Arizona ones as well). Another reason for Mrs. Hayes to resign and apologize to M. Lloyd is that she viciously makes personal attacks in her letter in response to M. Lloyd’s letter (on verdenews.com) and implies that M. Lloyd fabricated events and conversations and defaming her by saying she is basically deceitful. (M. Lloyd never made any personal attacks on any VVPOA officers or directors). It turns out that everything M. Lloyd reported is true and the VVPOA’s own documents supports all her statements and I do believe all those conversations took place and that threats were made as other people stated they have been threatened and harassed by the VVPOA. Plus Mrs. Hayes if you don’t think that charging an additional $75 for every 14 days that one does not respond to your demand letter is not profiting on fees then I don’t know what is – these fees are also not mentioned in any VVPOA documents so what right do you have to charge them? Along with many other people, I am also at a loss as to what the VVPOA does except alienate residents by using heavy-handed tactics to collect fees that are in fact very dubious at the very least, and use misplaced power by dictating to residents what they can or cannot do on their property even in those cases when the residents have acquired the permits needed from the County. Time for either the VVPOA to be disbanded or for the current officers and Board Members to resign and for people to take their place who want to work with the community and not against them and actually listen to the residents instead of attacking them!
S Brown,
I stand corrected.
I was not going to respond to any letters here, but your letter asking others to excuse June Hayes as she has only been President for a little over a year is unfounded.
2012 was my last year as President of V.V.P.O.A. At that time the Corporate filing was late and June assisted by submitting the filing as she was then V.P.
She then became President in 2013 and again the filing was late and she did the submission once again. These records can be found on the AZ Corporate Commission website. So there is no excuse for the board to have let this happen once again.
It should not matter that a prior board slipped up once because the then Treasurer had personal issues and got behind. If we all excused ourselves of our duties because someone else failed to do something nothing would ever get done. We can not blame others for our failures.
I am appalled at not only the tactics that the VVPOA employs to collect fees, the misrepresentations and lies that the President (June Hayes) and the Treasurer (Krys Vogler) are stating here and June Hayes online at the Verde News, the attacks on Ms. Lloyd that are vicious and absolutely unwarranted, and the fact that the VVPOA are not following their own and Arizona laws. Mrs. Hayes states that the VVPOA do their due diligence by keeping current with laws so how can she explain why the Bylaws are dated March, 2009, the Building Regulations are dated 1993, and the CC&Rs are over 40 years old. As there is no mention of solar panels or that residents require a permit for installing solar panels, then the VVPOA have no legal right to charge a fee for solar panel installations. Therefore the VVPOA need to return $75 to all the residents who have paid for an approval permit. (Or $150 or $225 as the VVPOA like to add $75 for every 14 days that one does not supposedly contact them – but the VVPOA have also not stated this provision in any of their documents so not only do they not have the right to do so but they are profiting on them as well). I hope that all the residents who paid a permit fee, and will pass on this info to people who did, and believe that the VVPOA did not have a legal right to charge a fee will contact the VVPOA and request their money back . I also agree with people that the current officers and Board members should resign and make a public apology to M. Lloyd for defaming her character and implying that she is delusional, lying, and issuing false information (see Mrs. Hayes letter on verdenews.com). The only people that are making vicious personal attacks, not stating the truth, not following the rules and law, and issuing false information are the VVPOA. I am at a loss as to how June Hayes can state that “we do our jobs legally, in accordance with the by-laws, CC&Rs, and the Architectural Control Committee charter” when in fact these documents actually negate this, as does Arizona law as there are provisions in the ARS that associations have to follow. I cannot remember seeing in the Bylaws, CC&Rs and Building Regulations that the VVPOA can threaten residents with liens or even trespass on their property and remove solar panels! Mrs. Hayes needs to read Article 2 again and also peruse the documents more closely and see that there is no mention of solar panels or fees for solar panels and the fact that the VVPOA have not specified an amount – only the word “fees”. Many of us are also perplexed on to what the VVPOA actually do to serve the community, as Mrs. Hayes points out that they apparently do a good job of doing it – the only thing I see that they serve is spaghetti at their spaghetti dinners!