By John Roberts, Sedona Resident
(May 8, 2021)
Media editors are receiving a slew of ideas from the residents about road designs to fix our traffic problems.
That’s fine if accepted but only when that one is a one in a million of them worthy.
The past record stinks. One recent venture into public road engineering is when an unauthorized vote demanded the idiotic two lanes for S.H/179 and won that election. The other in recent times was the uptown redesign forced upon us by store owners in a self serving demand. Now we read that the uptown design now under construction is already a failure.
As a graduate civil engineer with 26 years of highway/road/street design experience I am worried that another disaster awaits us if authorities yield to the demands of the unqualified public.
There are two major public agencies available along with more than one private civil engineer to guide the designs and construction of our streets to relieve congestion. The road engineers in ADOT and Sedona public works office are the qualified public engineers . So let’s not go amuck as we have in the past and allow the unqualified public to interfere and persuade authorities to make stupid decisions.
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10 Comments
Amen❤️
I find it interesting when somebody thinks they know more than a concerned group of citizens, who, with the help of engineers, moved ADOT from a bifurcated road ripping through the forest to a slower paced scenic roadway, albeit with numerous roundabouts.
I never pretended or portended to be an engineer – just a person with concern that ADOT construct a pathway to Sedona from the south that reflected the once beauty and grandeur of Sedona. I also suggested considering making 89A one-way to Flagstaff and one-way to Sedona from Schnebly Hill Rd. with connecting bridge(s) for switchback residents and businesses.
Perhaps people could learn to budget their time better, allowing for traffic congestion and accidents and traffic signals improperly synchronized. Perhaps should have spoken up when timeshares, hotels and Air BnBs were running amuck. Businesses along SR179 would rather have the congestion than see traffic rerouted through SR260 or Cornville Rd. Perhaps people could stop complaining about past efforts by well-meaning people and convince those concerned citizens of their own well-conceived plan.
John, as a 20 year resident I can appreciate your frustration with traffic. However, your rant and complaint about an ‘unqualified’ public is not useful. Could you please come up with some of your solutions rather than a simple litany of complaints?
Thom , do you know more or even the first thing about road design or the qualifications of those expert engineers in ADOT and the city’s public works group. If so let us all know. The only engineer I ever heard about promoting the two lanes was from Florida and had zero knowledge about Arizona conditions. He was unqualified and stupidly foolish. Speak up or just get out of the way.
john
Paul, I did furnish the solution by suggesting we let expert engineers provide a design of the solution not residential engineers. I made only one suggestion – hardly a litany – I think that’s evident in my post. Drama is futile.
I detect the unqualified prefer their ideas because they think real public engineers are pulling some kind of payoff political stunt or more likely it’s because those solutions are inconvenient for some of the residents to cope with.
Other than the faker from Florida which engineer helped the tree hugging proponents in the 179 failure ?
Maybe this will prompt an answer from Thom.
John
To correct Thom, who wrote something about me knowing more than a group of concerned citizens, but like many blind thinkers, Thom just has no basis for such an uninformed comment. For the record I opposed the two lane design after considerable consultation with ADOT’s project supervisor and the chief engineer of the consultant ADOT hired to design their 4 lane proposed design for 179. Both of whom emphatically agreed with me that two lanes would be a nightmare of traffic snarls and long traffic delays. With this and the finality of the decision by the city council to sign on to the two lane design my family sold our home just off 179 and south of Poco and moved to west Sedona.
And of course that congestion is exactly the performance we regularly find in the 2 lane 179 which we all see on 179 these days. All of which proves me far more knowledgeable than you and those tree hugging twits who promoted the 2 lane design as concerns traffic congestion on 179.
How does it feel to cry ” wolf ” like in the dutch leaky dike story. Yes very stupid.
Thom, you have been badly mistaken in this issue. I suggest you just shut up and not dig the hole you occupy any deeper.
John
By the way I held a professional engineers license in Wisconsin, Ohio and here in Arizona until I ceased activity as an engineer.
John
Back in the day before the “improvements,” I drove the 179 from west Sedona to VOC twice a day to and from work. Besides a couple of pot holes, there was NOTHING wrong with that road. There was no curbs and pulling over and stopping for photos or to take a hike was not only permitted but encouraged. Children would decorate the trees during the Christmas break, bringing the community together, and it was wonderful seeing their efforts.
I remember the community meetings where almost every resident wanted a 4 lane highway when upgrades were announced. I also remember the engineer saying to the residents “we don’t care what you want” as citizens were leaving one meeting, thinking that the 4 lane highway would be approved according to their wishes.
Now, after 20 years, I am STILL hearing “rebuild the Red Rock Crossings.” This will NEVER happen for many reasons. First of all “rebuild” is a laugh – there never was a road across the creek – it was a piece of plywood that washed away during a monsoon flood. And I can not imagine the amount of traffic today driving right thru the creek at Crescent Moon State Park. Back when they were thinking of making a bridge, it was nixed due to costs. Today the costs would be MUCH higher as all the land in the area has now been developed with mostly million dollar + homes. And there still is the ecological issues of putting a bridge where there are known endangered species of birds, plant life and fish.
Suppose the costs and the environment speed bumps are removed. Now you are left with the fact that the Red Rock Crossing is outside city limits and the City of Sedona has NO jurisdiction over the area. This means that Yavapai County must foot the bill to resolve a problem of traffic and parking in Coconino County, and Coconino has no desire to throw any money at all into the mix. It becomes a state issue, and they can not agree because Red Rock Loop Road is a narrow road full of hairpin curves with a 25 mph speed limit. The entire road would need to be redone to accommodate the large amount of traffic that would use the Red Rock Crossing bridge. The area, now a quiet rural area would turn noisy with the din of traffic and even more tourists.
There’s a bridge across the creek in “The Ranch” subdivision off Loop Road, and to all those who wish for a connection between VOC and west Sedona are welcomed to purchase a home within the area to access the bridge. But to take the bridge by imminent domain for “the good of all” is pure folly – I doubt those that have paid millions for their homes will allow that to happen.
Recently I’ve heard “sustainable” Sedona members talk about reducing the traffic by making Sedona a “reservations only” tourist city. They want gates put in at the top of the switch backs in the canyon, a gate just past Beaverhead Flat Road in the village, and on 89A near The Pines in west Sedona. Residents and deliveries would get a “speed pass,” but all other cars must stop and provide their reservation information. Reservations would be based on a first-come, first served basis and are free with a Red Rock Pass ($5). Tourist must provide reservation information with any local hotel or Airbnb and day trippers must get a reservation which will be available on-line, at kiosks at the gates, or from the Chamber. Only a limited number of cars will be allowed in Sedona on a daily basis. (Think: reservations at Fossil Creek.) I honestly don’t know what to think of this since it seems a bit of an over-reach and takes away basic freedoms from family road trips.
Having reservations for the most used trailheads may be in order, and laws already on the books about ATVs and OHVs need to be enforced to protect outlying areas, which again, are NOT under the jurisdiction of the City of Sedona, but rather the Dept of Agriculture and the State of Arizona. Perhaps if laws were strictly enforced, more laws and reservations would not be needed.
Well now, Jughead is at it twice today. He is upset because his coronavirus performance as Goofy or Dopey isn’t being touted enough to satiate his fat ego and now also he wants to be known as the Sedona chief highway engineer.
Tommy. you are trying my patience. But then I am not forced to read this numb nut’s tripe. So I’ll ignore jughead as the best option available.
John
Those who can not refute the facts, attack the messenger.
John you have NOTHING. I have FACTS.
Please ignore anything that raises your blood pressure. I would not your cognitive dissonance to get in your way.
Why do you think you even know any facts, even one, if you never consulted with either the ADOT supervisor or the chief engineer of the 179 consultant. You’re as balmy as any asylum resident ……. Oh so sorry to wake you up. Or were you leaving your outhouse just now.
Do you squirm when addressed , JUGHEAD ? HA HA HA
John