By John Roberts, Sedona Resident
(May 23, 2019)
The very impressive and extensive report from the Union of Concerned Scientists referenced in Lisa Greene’s 5/21 10:20pm submission contains key words that always have alerted me to question scientific reports for their veracity and applicability to a given subject in discussion. Only if the reader has the background into the world of reporting from scientists can these key words ring the alarm button. Those in this referenced article sure did for me.
A few typical key word examples from Lisa’s referenced scientific report were: very likely, can have, can increase the likelihood, also able to determine, likely responsible for most, using sophisticated models, etc.. All of which are used to increase a reader’s confidence in the validity of the report. It is a deliberate writing tactic of some folks to enhance persuasiveness. Sublime and manipulative. You always find attractive graphs, charts to make the report look authentic. But without exception the reports exclude naming the basic support mechanisms or equipment which were supposedly used to furnish the data used to plot the graphs and charts contained in their reporting. A must have in valid scientific work. Always provided by the research group where I worked at Armco Steel.
Then added to my questioning about validity is who is paying these scientists for this work. What is the underlying goal of the payer. Is it self serving or really for the common good. In the case of global warming there is much too much that disturbs those with some knowledge about these circumstances to feel comfortable about. The Al Gore supporters making money from wind farm and from solar equipment sales, etc. are far too prevalent in the background for many of us to swallow this kind of reporting that Lisa wanted us to read.
This may sound far fetched. It is my conviction that in this case it is not wild conjecture because I have been there too many times reading scientific reports and knowing from independent fact sources that the report is faked or doctored at best to look authentic. If it happened at Armco research the scientists weren’t around for long.
Sorry, Lisa, for me it is impossible to believe the report you cite. I am not a confirmed cynic but have had experience in these matters which prevents my believing the Union’s report.
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22 Comments
John, what’s troubling and suspect are too may people that predicted climate gloom and doom until they were no longer employed by that specific organization and then their real opinions start to sturface.
Also when you look at these “computer models” there seems to be a lack of interest in why the models aren’t working. The real reason of course is any computer model needs accurate data on the input side. And when that is not correct, the model proves to be worthless.
So the computer models are wrong…97 percent of climate scientists are wrong..
I guess we’ll just take yours and John “insights” as fact.
Thanks but no thanks.
Lisa, since you are not able to comprehend what Mike and I state as fact you cannot reply with any answers other than the very lame ones just offered. No facts beget no enabled discussion. That is where you are locked.
I’ll remind you of the facts. Your scientists ( not just 97 but far more like all 100% ) do not conduct themselves as professionals and input false data into computers they channel specifically for garbage output. In addition they chose ( are paid to ) to ignore the total picture which is out there for all to observe. Thus they outsmart and maneuver you. They are those whose goals are only a personal gain.
When you refuse to acknowledge these facts you are doomed not to produce intelligent commentary on the subject.
Be happy with it.
Thank you John..
I will just disregard your comments(cause from the past I realize) that you dont like being contradicted.
Ill stick with the real facts that 97 percent of the climate scientists agree on . But your misleading statements are appreciated if not humorous…
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Lisa Greene Lisa Mike is an expert on fire department operations and buildings, city management, design of 179, and the founder of the Sedona T party.
LIsa you should be humble,Mike know more than 97% percent of the climate scientist.
Epictetus reminds us that just because someone has more money than you doesn’t make them superior.
No, only their bank balance is superior.
If someone is an eloquent speaker, that doesn’t make them better than you either.
It just means they have better diction. “You yourself,” he says, “are neither property nor diction.”
Let’s follow the experts they are called scientist, not some crazy religious based BS about God over see everything….. and how presumptuous it is for man to thing it can change anything in Gods plan.
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John Roberts
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The only message I received from Steve Segner in his 5/28 comments was we follow 97% of all those scientists and somehow that is God’s plan. Since so many of these scientists support the published false misleading graphics like the hockey stick curve I wonder if that’s a good suggestion. I would also question if it is God’s plan particularly since we’ve not heard anything ( global warming in particular ) from him since Moses relayed his thoughts to us long ago.
I , for one, prefer to examine real facts and not what someone wants us to think they are as I warned and explained in my 5/23 reference article on catchy phraseology. That’s why we should follow facts which include that global warming has begun again like it has always done over the entire life history of our Earth. To ignore this is akin to saying the fact of the presence of coal, oil and natural gas is just a mirage.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
@John Roberts
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Well lookie here , Lisa, you and I agree. The Earth does appear to be warming up. The shoddy data (temp. ) collection can be set aside to the more reliable physical changes taking place like intrusion of sea water, loss of land mass to the seas,etc.but most certainly not attributed to mankind. That fact is proven even more so by the global warming in the past when massive flora growth took place with coal, oil and natural gas being formed out of the decaying mass. And far more importantly when man wasn’t anywhere around to spew CO2 into the atmosphere.
These are facts which render the Al Gore gang speechless in claiming that man has caused the current warming trend.
I doubt that you have another explanation for coal and no humans,because none exists..
So carbon dioxide is going up the debate is over whether it’s a problem or not but wouldn’t it seem logical just to turn around and make it go down.we can do that and why wouldn’t we do it oh and some people wouldn’t make money on oil and we would use solar panels for electricity are those bad things. Who are we to use up all earth resources now and leave none behind for future generations who are we to put anything in the atmosphere it wasn’t there already who are we to put anything into rivers or oceans that’s not there naturally
Some people call it progress, I caught a frog in boiling water
Earth’s carbon dioxide has jumped to the highest level in human history
The monthly peak amount of carbon dioxide in the Earth’s atmosphere in 2019 jumped by a near-record amount to reach 414.8 parts per million (ppm) in May, which is the highest level in human history and likely the highest level in the past 3 million years.
Why it matters: Carbon dioxide is the most important long-lived greenhouse gas, with a single molecule lasting in the air for hundreds to around 1,000 years. The continued buildup of carbon dioxide due to human activities, such as burning fossil fuels for energy, is driving global temperatures up and instigating harmful impacts worldwide.
The fact that carbon dioxide levels increased by a near-record amount of 3.5 ppm in just one year illustrates that we’re headed in the opposite direction from what climate scientists have shown is needed to avoid the worst consequences of global warming.
Details: According to Scripps Institution of Oceanography, the average carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere recorded at the isolated Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii averaged 414.8 parts per million during May, which is the highest seasonal peak since such observations began 61 years ago.
The highest monthly mean carbon dioxide value typically occurs in May, before plants take in large amounts of greenhouse gases during the Northern Hemisphere growing season.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration operates a worldwide greenhouse gas observational network, and its data was close to Scripps’ May year-to-year data.
By the numbers:
Readings from NOAA show a seasonal peak of 414.7 ppm, and the second-fastest rate of increase in any year on record.
Studies using ice cores and other data on historical carbon dioxide levels show this is unprecedented in all of human history, and likely the highest amount of CO2 in the air during the past 3 million years.
The 2019 peak was 3.5 ppm higher than the 2018 monthly peak, which was the second-highest annual jump on record.
This continues a 6-year streak of steep global increases in carbon dioxide concentrations.
The rate of increase has quickened in recent decades, going from about 1.6 ppm per year in the 1980s to 2.2 ppm per year in the past decade, a trend conclusively tied to human activities.
Monthly CO2 values at Mauna Loa first breached the 400 ppm threshold in 2014.
Part of the increase since 2018 is thought to be related to an ongoing El Niño event in the tropical Pacific Ocean.
The big picture: Scientists have warned that if the world is to limit global warming to 1.5°C, or 2.7°F, above pre-industrial levels, then sharp emissions cuts have to begin in the next few years, with the world headed for negative emissions by the end of the century.
Background: In the northern fall, winter and early spring, plants and soils give off CO2, which cause levels to rise through May.
What they’re saying: “These are measurements of the real atmosphere,” says Pieter Tans, senior scientist with NOAA’s Global Monitoring Division, in a press release. “They do not depend on any models, but they help us verify climate model projections, which if anything, have underestimated the rapid pace of climate change being observed.”
What’s next: Scientists will announce a new annual figure for 2019 in early 2020, but the monthly peak is considered to be an important climate indicator.
Go deeper: Earth’s carbon dioxide level slips past another ominous milestone
Maybe Steve didn’t see them turn off the sun’s infra red button while he scrambled finding all about what levels CO2 had climbed to and where. Then he would really have had something to tell us.
@John Roberts
Steve’s post is what 97 percent of climate scientists believe. Your response to Steve is typical of the other 3 percent which you believe.
Right you are Lisa about the other 3% but the reason isn’t for what you and Stevie believe. The real reason is the 97% have essentially been bribed to support the wrong reason offered by the Al Gore gang. But you do not want to believe that fact. Nor do you want to accept reasons that global warming is happening just like it always has over the millions of years past with mankind absent. No because it is so much easier to believe mankind is to blame by creating that abundance of CO2.
Why not instead look outside at each sunset and sunrise for the answer. If you do then while at it think what portion of that emission you see is made up by the infra red part of that light spectrum. That red part is shooting some energy our way and when it lands the bombarded surface temperatures will rise as we all know. That is the start of the missing part of the explanation for global warming you have blocked from your line of thought.
Do you and Steve really think the sun is not a part of global warming ?
well that says it all, I did not know they were all bribed! At least now we have the answer. thanks John. Scientists are all low life crooks.
Yes, the Earth is indeed heating up. The truth is, EVERY planet in our solar system is heating up.
Despite Steve Segner’s best efforts in cut and paste, CO2 is needed on Earth – Plants breath it in and returns Oxygen. You’d suffocate without CO2.
What isn’t being discussed, and is right in front of your eyes on almost a daily basis are the chemtrails in the sky. Why not bring HAARP and CERN into the equation? Because apparently there is a grand conspiracy to cover up the weather wars now going on.
https://www.livescience.com/1349-sun-blamed-warming-earth-worlds.html
https://www.globalresearch.ca/military-weather-modification-chemtrails-atmospheric-geoengineering-and-environmental-warfare/5356630
https://geopolitics.co/2015/06/06/us-air-force-admits-they-can-control-weather/
We need no CARBON TAXES. These taxes will only go into the vast financial hole in Washington DC. We get poorer. Those in government get richer.
We need truth in the media and we need to educate ourselves and keep an open mind. The Georgia Guidestones rules seem to be getting closer to reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIA7sl827iQ
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/georgia-guidestones
“Low life crooks” is not the logical understanding of my phrase, ” essentially been bribed “. and absolutely not if you were aware of the arrangement that’s going on.
By the way , Steve, have you observed the sunsets and sunrises for IR emissions ?
When you do take a look and have the right answer to paying those scientists you admire then maybe we can have an exchange about global warming..
I’ll wait.
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Sedona biz editor…
My comments WERE relevant. To the conversation….
Seriously!?
john roberts says:
June 5, 2019 at 11:39 am
Right you are Lisa about the other 3% but the reason isn’t for what you and Stevie believe. The real reason is the 97% “scientists” have essentially been bribed to support the wrong reason offered by the Al Gore gang.
John,
In 1929 Joseph Stalin assumed despotic control over
The Soviet Union. A peasant named Trofim Lysenko
Convinced Stalin that living things, like people and crops
No not inherit traits or genes from their parents.
Stalin killed thousands of scientists and
put Lysenkoin charge of food production in Russia.
Lysenko Failed to boost crop yields, and millions starved.
Trump and conservative Republicans are on the look out for
Their own “Lysenkoism” a believe system not based on science.
Reader, you can follow science, or you can follow Conrad-Roberts but millions will die.